EMuS Team - 9 members

• 06-03-2010 7:19 AM

  michiel Joined on 09-14-2009 Posts 27

  EMuS Team - 9 members Contact In the thread The Finalists a discussion started about the EMuS team. To keep that thread about the finalists and their games, I've created this separate thread. On their official website (http://www.elmundoensilencio.com/ (Spanish, english translation by google) they've stated to have 9 members. Which is in violation with the rules of the Imagine Cup Game Design Competion. I've already submitted a ticket to the officials, as well as others. At the moment their has been no official response yet by Microsoft. To be clear: This is not a desperate attempt to get someone kicked out of the finals and getting in ourselves. I just want a fair competition, in which I lost to people with the same limitations as me.

• 06-03-2010 7:29 AM

  In reply to

  michiel Joined on 09-14-2009 Posts 27

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact    E-mail conversation with Game Design Competition support:   Michiel In the following topic: http://imaginecup.com/forums/t/13511.aspx It came up that one of the finalists consists of 9 members, which is more then allowed by the rules and regulations (4 max). Just wanted to bring this to your attention. User Details User Name: michiel   Imagine Cup Support Team Thank you for sharing this with us. As per the Imagine Cup official rules, only 4 members are allowed per team for the game design competition. Please refer the team page at http://imaginecup.com/MyStuff/MyTeam.aspx?TeamId=21111. The team has 3 official team members and a mentor. Please let us know if you have further queries. Thank you. Imagine Cup Support Team Imagine Cup 2010 You win. We all win. www.imaginecup.com   Michiel It's technically impossible to register more then 4 members for the ImagineCup game design competetion (this is because of the rules of course). I'm  referring to the discussion started in this topic: http://imaginecup.com/forums/t/13511.aspx (About half-way the first page it starts). I'll quote one post by myself: "The game website ( original / translated ) clearly states they have 9 members, and entered multiple competitions/events with their game. I quote (the translation): "One of the objectives of Emesa was to participate in Microsoft's Imagine Cup". The equipo/team page clearly says they have 1 producer/1 project manager (maybe you could see those two as mentors, however you can only have 1 mentor). Two designers, three developers and two graphic artists. The site is centered around one game (El Mundo en Silencio), and nowhere there seems to be an indication they have multiple version for multiple competitions. And it does not sound feasible they've removed all the work of one mentor, designer, developer and graphics artist. I'm not trying to make them look bad. However, I would like to be beaten by a team with the same limitations as us. If only we had one extra guy, we could've done so much more. It just doesn't seem fair." To summarize: Their online website of the game has 9 members, which makes me conclude that they've created the game with these 9 members, and not just with 4.

• 06-03-2010 9:31 AM

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  MrAndyPuppy Joined on 09-29-2008 Posts 89

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact Hi Michiel (and everyone else), I just wanted to write a quick note to let you all know that we are aware of this concern and are taking it seriously. We don't want to make a rash decision based on what we perceive may or may not be true and are seeking clarification from the team, their mentor and other parties to ensure we act on this appropriately. On behalf of the entire Imagine Cup team, I thank you all for being so passionate and ask that you be patient while we process this properly. Thanks! Andrew Andrew Parsons Imagine Cup 2010 | Game Design Competition Captain

• 06-03-2010 9:41 AM

  In reply to

  michiel Joined on 09-14-2009 Posts 27

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact I already had the feeling you were discussing it. Because it is such a delicate matter, you don't want to be to quick with your reactions. Anyway, thanks for the reaction, so we now know the matter is being discussed and taken seriously. I'm eager to find out how this is going to end, but we'll here from you (or another official), when you've formed an opinion / made a decision / etc.

• 06-03-2010 12:08 PM

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  oliveiraheloise Joined on 01-07-2010 Posts 11

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact Thanks for the answer, Mr. Andrew. The Support sent me the same message they sent to michiel, so I almost thought that the IC wasn't taking this seriously, because reading "Thank you for sharing your concerns with us. As per the Imagine Cup official rules, only 4 members are allowed per team for the game design competition. Please refer the team page at http://imaginecup.com/MyStuff/MyTeam.aspx?TeamId=21111. The team has 3 official team members and a mentor.  Please let us know if you have further queries."  ...makes us believe our words would just be forgotten. Just to share with you all, this is what I wrote to the Game Development Support: "Hi! On the Game Design Forum, there has been a discussion about the legitimacy of eMeS team as a finalist. According to the IC Rules, "The size of your Team must not exceed the limits designated in the Competition Details." eMeS clearly says on their website (http://www.elmundoensilencio.com/equipo/ ) that their team has more than 4 people and a mentor, and we can also see that the author of the idea for their game is not on eMeS team on IC. This is serious, and it's making other competitors upset about the situation, because if this is true it feels unfair and disrespectful to the other teams. I hope you investigate it and everything comes clear. So please we'd like to see a statement about that. Thanks for your attention!"

• 06-03-2010 6:08 PM

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  michnique Joined on 10-25-2007 Posts 29

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact Hypothetical situation A: Team "A-Team" has 4 registered members and uses Havok engine for their "A**-kicking Game" (pronounced "A Star Star Kicking Game"). Question 1: How many team members does the "A-Team" have? In your calculations use "Game Design rules and regulations". a) 4 (registered team members only) b) 54 (50 men working on Havok + registered "A-Team" members) c) 300,000 (all Imagine Cup competitors because of the motto "you win, we all win") The correct answer is... (snare drums followed by a single cymbal hit)... A. By measures of Game Design competition "A-Team" still has four members although they benefited from many people's work. Let's suppose that "A**-kicking Game" makes it through to final six and "A-Team" goes to Warsaw for an almost one week long party sponsored by Microsoft. Registered members are very sad, because they are not allowed to take their friends from Havok Team with them despite the fact that their code was significant part of the game. Do you see any analogies here? ever tried. ever failed. no matter. try again. fail again. fail better

• 06-03-2010 6:17 PM

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  Piotr Jaworski Joined on 01-05-2009 Posts 23

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact No I don't. Havoc engine is a tool. Not a creative part of game development. The Havoc creators didn't participate in game production process, and are not members of team A. Also take into consideration fact that we all could use Havoc, while assets created by those few people were only for the A-teams disposal. Do the math. Rules are rules no matter how eager you are to go around them.

• 06-03-2010 11:40 PM

  In reply to

  MrAndyPuppy Joined on 09-29-2008 Posts 89

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact Hi all, As some of you may have already noticed, the leaderboard has now been updated and eMeS has been replaced out of the top six. My commiserations go to the Spanish team as I believe that they only had best intentions at heart and did attempt to adhere to the rules and regulations of the competition. I sincerely hope they come back next year, fired up and show us what they're capable of. Hopefully now we can all move on and understand that we do take the rules of the competition seriously. Instead, let's congratulate NomNom Productions for making it to the final six. Andrew Parsons Imagine Cup 2010 | Game Design Competition Captain

• 06-04-2010 12:47 AM

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  michiel Joined on 09-14-2009 Posts 27	Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact Wow! Respect! To be honest, I wasn't sure you all were going to act on these accusations. However I'm very happy steps have been taken. // TODO: Smaller variable names. RespectForImagineCupGameCompetetion++;

• 06-04-2010 2:27 AM

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  michnique Joined on 10-25-2007 Posts 29

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact Oh well done! Once "dangerous precedent" of big teams have been prevented now we are facing another one, in my opinion much more serious: ratting others to the judges. Now I'm waiting for someone picking on Green-Gears for possible violations of ESRB rating. Anyway, I just wanted to offer my sincere condolences to eMeS. ever tried. ever failed. no matter. try again. fail again. fail better

• 06-04-2010 4:32 AM

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  Amlug Joined on 01-27-2009 Posts 19

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact   michnique: Once "dangerous precedent" of big teams have been prevented now we are facing another one, in my opinion much more serious: ratting others to the judges. I say "AY!" to that. It is ugly. It seems that the fact of the Imagine Cup finals having place in Poland this year, has resulted in a bad influence of one of the polish stereotypes on the contestants. ;P And that would be envy - a stereotypical Pole won't rest, as long as his neighbour has it better than himself. Let's just hope that this is the last of all bad influences from wherever this year. Deepest condolences from me as well, team eMeS. Why is the RUM gone?!?

• 06-04-2010 5:09 AM

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  gudome Joined on 10-06-2008 Posts 8	Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact michnique: Now I'm waiting for someone picking on Green-Gears for possible violations of ESRB rating. LOL

• 06-04-2010 5:25 AM

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  Byczy Joined on 12-08-2009 Posts 12	Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact Amlug: It seems that the fact of the Imagine Cup finals having place in Poland this year, has resulted in a bad influence of one of the polish stereotypes on the contestants. ;P   Yyy... what stereotype? Oo

• 06-04-2010 7:24 AM

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  Amlug Joined on 01-27-2009 Posts 19

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact  Well you know... It's the kind of situation, when Nowak buys himself a new car and his dear neighbour Kowalski secretly wishes for the car to be stolen, so that Nowak wouldn't have anything better than him. Simple, human envy is being the stereotype here. Many polish cabarets do stage performances on that little vice, cause it's a common thing. I'm even surprised, YOU are asking. You're a Pole yourself, after all. Or are you? ^.-.^   Why is the RUM gone?!?

• 06-04-2010 7:48 AM

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  Piotr Jaworski Joined on 01-05-2009 Posts 23

  Re: EMuS Team - 9 members Contact Stereotypes are wrong and you really shouldn't use them to generalise some groups of people. It's just in really bad style to do that. One of the stereotypes is also that blondes are stupid - do you agree with that as well? Going back to the topic- the competition has rules that should be obeyed. If you don't like those rules - don' enter the competition. If you broke those rules - suffer the consequences. I refuse to give condolences to that 9-people team, because I hate when someone is cheating (and given their disqualification I can tell it's a fact now) making the competition unfair to others. Picking on Green-Gears seems a bit desperate.